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Federal Gazette & Baltimore Daily Advertiser 1807/07-1807/12 msa_sc3722_2_6_2-0502 Enlarge and print image (5M) |
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Federal Gazette & Baltimore Daily Advertiser 1807/07-1807/12 msa_sc3722_2_6_2-0502 Enlarge and print image (5M) |
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' Debates in Congress.
HOUSE OF KF.PnFSF.XTATITES.
Monday, November q.
DEBATE on the bill making further ap~
fioprintion for the support of the -ua'tiy- du-
ring the year i807.
(Continued.)
Mr. Randolph In ped the time would come
—and that very goon when we should have
an opportunity of going into a regular dis-
cussion of the p lints toucher! upon by the
gentleman From Maryland: and same others.
He trusted that in the first place the question
would be regularly brought before the house
- - aad the late experiment had thrown consi
derable light upon the subject -whether the
Unhid Siates ought to maintain a navy and
to what extent ? Whether an establishment
which for year3 had proved a moth in the
public purse, and which, when the exigen-
cy of the moment called for its last exertions
had proved only a conductor of dishonor to
fltae nation, deserved to be cherished with
the tenderness and supported a1 theexpence
which had hitherto been lavished upon it.
He hoped this question would be fairly intt
~~ and as fairly decided, for strange as it might
appear, this great point had never been di.
tectly settled, since the present admiuistra
tion came into office, but had heretofore
c?.ase it was a measure of defence ? No* be-
a half measure, a mere make
any economical regulation, or legal c6nrroul,
The secretary of the treasury goes on to caH;e it
"It would seem that, if those'appro- ^vs, a tub to the political whale, some-
dererl by the treasury .. i ,-, ., ,- . r ¦ ¦ ,
J -,, . *%, thin? like the famous act It raising vohui-
venerated such conlnsioi
say ^^^^^^^^
priations are consic.
department as general, of which grants, to """b '""~
be issued according to exigencies that or teers winch hart generated such confusion
some other executive department is to judge, in our militia system, that in fact it could
*¦ h* pvpr.ujed—because more especially
and if, therefore, the monies specifically
appropriated to one head of service are ap
plieil to another head, they are not applied '
and accounted for pursuant, bin..contrary to
law. Such a mode is undoubtedly liable to
great abuses ; it deceives the legislature, who,
when appropropriating one hundred thousand
dollars for the defensive protection of the
frontiers did not think that the treasury
would assume a power to apply them to the
quarter master or any other department. It
deprives the legislature from arty coiitroul,
not only over the distribution of the monies
amongst the several heads of service, but
even over the total sum to be expended. For
the million and a half of dollars, appropriat-
ed for the annual support of six thousand
men, the nominal establishment, may be spent
in the same time, and in fact has actually
been expended within 14 months for the
3 500 men who constituted the effective
establishment. The same abuse has, for a
considerable time, prevailed in England, give- The
where is has, at several periods,'been taken ; **¦- -
r—
not be executed—because more especially
the expence had* been illegally incurred.
But lie ould be the last to give a reluctant
assent to vigorous, and efficient measures ori-
ginated in a Constitutional •vay) which
might he deemed assential to the national
defence or to the vindication of the national
honor. . If instead of waiting the si w re-
turn . fthe Revenge, congress had been as-
sembled immediately on the attack of the
Chesapeake, to provide for the commrn
defence, he would have given his warmest
assent to any measure that could have been
deviesd for retrieving the national honor
F r if any thing was worth going to war
; for it was a nation's honor, since it is inse-
: parable from a nation's safety.
i Mr. Quincy deemed it his duty to assign
his reasons for the vote he was ar> ut to
house would recollect, that in
the course ' f proceedings which had taken
cn^l on this occasion, it should he on ihe
committee who bad reported the bill.
[Debate to be continued^
rOSTON, November 21.
P>y the Francis, capt Curtis, arrived on
Tuesday Mast, from Liverpool, our London
dates are brought dev/n to the 12th ult.
The London papers by the Francis, do
not contain a 'word on the subject of any
British order of council, relating to Bona-
parte's blockading decree.
Extracts of letters from England. •>
Liverpool, October i4, 1807.
" It is said, the ultimatum of this govern-
ment has been transmitted to the United
Slates, but its specific import has not trans-
pired. Mr. Monroe has been presented at
court previous to his departure ; but his re-
turn is not coupled with any thing political,
as Mr. Pincney remains here-"
not.^ of, S£lM4 produce a motion of | place yesterday, this bill coining so ma
¦ ¦ - * ------ ' ny appropriations, and coming before tne
been determined in an oblique, collateral
way.. He hoped too, the question would
be discussed how far the present state of our
political relations abroad, had grown out of
thi' proceedings of the memorable sessisn
of 1805 6,"a'id In w far (perhaps this might
Arrive the only opportunity for such a dis-
cussion) the measures taken by the ex< cu
tive upon the capture of the hesapeake
comported with the wishes and expectations
Of the people and with the maxima of sound,
dignified and enlightened policy.
The gentleman from Maryland, who had
jiis» sat down, allowed that the position
Contended for yesterday in opposition to
the practice of contracting public debts or
expending public money illegally, were in
tbte general good, but seemed to consider
them liable to man\ and great exceptions.
O.i ' bjs subJHCt he would produce an authori-
ty which would shew what had been the
opinion of the republican party, when they
were out of power, and h®w far it support
ed the doctrine which gentlemen had now
undertaken to defend. Hire Mr. R. quoted
Gallatin on the Finances of the United
States, page 81. ¦'• Another ir.egularity
has once taken place upon an extraordinary
Occasion, Although the president of the
United States was authorised to call out the
militia to suppress insurrections, no monies
were appropriated for that service. When
the western insurrection took place, until
congress had covered the expenditures of
that expedition by an appropriation made
only on the 3ist of December, 1794, the
expeaces were defrayed out of the monies
appropriated for the military establishment.
Yet even the principle, by which the speci-
fic appropriations for several objects of the
military establishment have been considered
as a general grant for the whole, could not
authorize the application, of a part of that
fratvt to the expences of the expedition. No
farther discretion had been claimed by virtue
ef that principle than that of indistinctly
applying the whole sum appropriated by
Jaw to any of the obji cts enumerated and
" J""'---u "•'¦> ;" the law it-
^^^^^^^^ out to sup-
press an insurrection make no part of the
military establishment, the expences attend-
ing such a call were not among the various
objects enumerated in the law'making ap-
propriations for the military establishment.
The monies drawn from the treasury on
that occasion were paid out of a fund ap
propriated for other ard distinct purposes 1
lot dr.iun agreeable t> '" '--*-"
specified tii der distinct heads in
s'.]f. Put as the militia called c
they were ""* **-i*t\yi narrcavtc tu the Ci nstt
fiction, in consequence in an^ •,t,t,,.r------
made by law. It might be a deject in the
iWi, authorizing the expences not to have
provided the means ; but that defect should
have been remedied by the only competent
authority, by convening congress. The ne
cessity of the meaeure, may, in the mind
the executive have superceded every
consideration" The popularity of
the transaction(and he might have add
of the agent) " may have thrown
of
Othe
.jed,
bnt it should by no
'6 veil over its illegality,
means be drawn hen aftei into precedent.'
Mr. Randolph believed that the opinion
•which he had just read would bear him fully
out in the prii ciples which he had lain down
ye.terday as those on which the eld whig
ot republican minority in congress had acted,
on which they had specifically as well as
vi'tucally pledged themselves to the nation
to act, and which when they deserted, they
deserved the reprehension of every honest
ind. Can any man pre tend to say, that
rrection. in the very infancy
^^Tf less
mr
the western insuv
of this government presented a case of less
public exigency than the capture of the
Chesapeake ? And yet the then president,
of the U. S. for having illegally defrayed
the expence of that xpedit.ion. instead ot
Convoking the legislature and acting under
its authority, had deservedly received the
censure, not of the multitude, for they wee
vdth him, but of the thinking few. He
was condemned by the reflecting part of tht
community and the system on which he
acted, and which his successor had pushed
to the most extravagant lengths, was finally
am sttd by the public voice.
In a preceding part of his work (page 79)
the secretary passes seme deserved strictures
l;.,.,. -.*,rivrmri;itionS.
en the practice of mingling appropriations.
"The appropriations heretofore made for
the military establishment have been subdi-
vided into a number of separate heads mak-
ing specific and distinct appropriations foi
the pay cf the army, for its subsistence, for
eloathing, &c. and it was supposed that the
monies thus distinctly appropriated were
respectively applied to the spicn.c objects
f 1 which they were approptl; ted. It how-
ever appiars by a letter from the secretary
of the treasury ot May, 17^6. that by fai
the greatest part of the I xpersditureS for the
military dt pai tint nt are found by experience
to be unsusceptible Ot that particular rlistri
butiun^fcvhich is observed in the issues of
monies appropriated to other objects ; ard
that appropriations for military purposes
ought 1 be considered aS a general grart Of
such sums as the public service is foyndii
requite, to be issued according to exigencies,
and applied and account** rdrng to
law." The house y i'.I 0-0 llect, that at this
tin e We had not .that ¦¦ ¦ v hich
has since pre ed yet move unl
impeachment against the ministers.
l> On the other hand it is impossible for
the legislature /to foresee, in all its details,
the necessary application of monies ; and a
reasonable discretion should be fallowed to
the proper executive department. The most
proper way would perhaps be, not to enter 1
into so many details, not to make specific
appropriations tor every distiaca head of mt
vice, but to divide the general appropriation
under a few general heads onlv, allowing;
thereby a sufficient latitude to the executive . |
officers of government but confining them
strictly in the .expenditure under each of
these general heads, to the sum appropiiated
bylaw;" _ ]
The two cases noticed by Mr G dlatin,
were the mingling or lumping of appropria-
tions, and the expenditures ot money on ob-
jects authorised by law, but for which there
was no appropriation. The present case
not "nly embraced those two. but another
and much stronger case than any which Mr.
Gallatin had imagined :—the expenditure of
money not only •without any appropriation, but
upon objects not previously authorised byl'.tu.
But Mr. R. said, it a as asserted that the
articles were not paid lor—that contracts
only had been made for them. So much
the worse. In point of principle there -vas
no difference between contracting an ille-
gal debt, and making an illegal disburse-
ment of money. But in point ol rjeiono-
my, there was a great difference against the
former. If these articles had been bought
wth cash, they would have cost less. Mer-
chants all over the world looked for profit.
W mid they deliver upon contract, to be
paid s me months hence, provided Congress
appruved, their saltpetre, for instance, at a
cash priee—at a tine too of imminent dan-
ger of a war. and when every article of mi-
litary equipment must be expected to rise
enormously in value. ' He could not see in
such a procedure (grantiag the fact to be so,
of which he doubted) a theme for eulogy on
the ec'inomy of men in office, or any maik
of promptitude to provide for the public
defence vhich could be done effectually by
the legislature alone.
He put it to the candor of a gentleman
from Maryland, to say whether, if the Pre-
sident had pursued a different course, had
met the public expectation and convened
Congress, he could not have f-und in the
respect shewn by the Executive for the laws
and the constitutional rights of that house,
by a prompt recurrence to the only source
of legitimate authority, a more ready and
natural defence of his conduct than that
which he had laboriously but fruitlessly tax-
ed his ingenuity to produce. The gentle-
man's argument proved too much.—The
mare he magnified the danger of the crisis
to justify an illegal and unconstitutional ex-
penditure of the public money the more
clearly did be demonstrate the necessity of
convening Congress. But, Sir, when the
call f r an immediate prepaialion to meet
the emergency of the times, is dinned into
our ears, will any man pretend to say that
such preparation has been made—that we
aie now prepared for war ? ¦ Could any gen-
tleman bring himself to believe, that a few
pounds ot sah-petre had put the nation in a
posture of defence ?—or that we hadl any
other preparation than that which stout and |
•willing hearts afforded? The measures |
which had been taken were, as respected a
violation ol the constitute n and laws, cer-
tainly efficient, but in relation to defence,
next to nothing. We were nearly in the
same state of preparation as t • o years ago,
when the non-importation law that pinnace a
of political empyricism, came into vogue—
So late as the last session of Congress, the
house had been told by a gentleman from
Massachusetts, not now in his place, that
this law had already done wonders—that un-
til it had passed, Great Britain would not
listen to any proposition from our ministers,
but no sooner was it enacted than her ears
were opened, and a disposition manifested
to grant our demands. But a regular course
of this nostrum had ended, as all quackery-
was sure to do, in an aggravation of thedis-
ease. The gentleman from Maryland had
said something which be could not distinct-
consider him as an apologist of Spain or her
minister. He had warned the house two
ly hear concerning the Spanish minis-
ter. He hoped the gentleman did not
years ago of the consequence of truckling
with Spain, ot the inevitable effect of such
mean submissions on the conduct of other
nations towards us. What then was prophe-
cy is now history.
A fear had been expressed that if a reluc-
tant assent were given to this bill we should
di=appoint the hopes of the people. Mr. R.
house under such peculiar circumstances,
and a motion being made for the committee
to rise he had assumed the parliamentary
right of askinir of the organ of the hou-e,
a few questions in order to ascertain the
particular objects of these appropriations—
whether the amount of appropriations in the
bill covered the whole extent o' mibtiary
stores mentioned in the president's message,
a* havingbeeivpurchased, and -hetherthey
extended over all the expenditures which
had been made ? He had conceived that all
the questions he had asked, were relevant
to the subject, such as he had a right to ask :
he had expressed no disapprobation of the
appropriation of the expenditure which pro-
duced it, but merely asked for information.
There, was no gentleman of the committee
of ways and means wh pretended to illumi-
nate the subject ; on the contrary not a col-
lateral remark had been made. It had been
said that he wished to overthrow the bill.
Bein« placed in his situation, he deemed it
his duty to add a fe*< remarks to shew what
were 'he real objects of his enquiries.
He laid it down as a principle, and he
called on gentlemen to contradict it, that
this was a particular case on our records;
unprecedented as ^ie believed. The gen-
tleman from Virginia had anticipated his
ideas on the subject ;—that, though under
former appr ipriaii ns there had been misap-
propriations, there bad been no instance >n
which there was not a previous appropriati-
on. This was a new case ; a leading case,
for which there was ho precedent. He
wished to kn w as particular circumstances,
ho the faith and honor of the nation was
pledged, and how it had been done ? H;
^.thought he had a right to ask this. He
ade the enquiry for another reason ; in all
cases under the former adminstration, alih¦¦'
misappropriations had been made, the vihole
procedure had been avowed; always ap-
peared on the records, fr m reports of the
Ci mmittees, or from some representations to
the h- use. As an evidence of this Mr.
Q^ referred to a report of the committee
made on the 22d day of May, i*;94 ; in
vhich the committee expressly said,
«• I: has "ccasionally happened that the
omission or delay of appropriations bylaw,
renders it imp ssible to satisfy, in regular
course, demands upon tne treasury, which
have been incurred pursuant to law, and the
satisfying ol which is essential to the pub-
lic service.
" In such cases, the course has been for
the secretary of the treasury to request infor-
mal advances by the banks to the persons to
whom the payment are to be made, to be
reimbursed when provision is made by law.
The account of such advances are destinct
from that of the treasurer, and the advances
are reiabursed, when provision is made by
law, by warrants upon the treasurer."
If that administration ^ere no* in pow-
er, and the principles now prevailing, which
were then justified, he would have given
them his sanction, because the course was
obvious. But in the report of' the commit
tec of investigation made to the house in
1802, this proceeding had been declared
irregular ; and the secretary of the navy in
his letter to that committee, had expressly
made representations of various errors in the
treasury department, in applications of mo-
ney. This being the case, was it not pro-
per that the house should understand the
moad in which this had been done ? Whe-
ther any money had been drawn out of the
treasury, and how got at ? Mr. Q^ had
meant to cast no imputation on the bill.
There were two things to be considered ;
one the correctness of the end, the other
the correctness of the means to that end.
He believed it had been proper under all
circumstance^ for the executive to take mea-
sures tor proj/iding the means ; but did it
folloty-that the house should authorise theru
without information on the subject ? They
should know the particulars, they should
" Birmingham, Ootoberi, 1807.
" We are sorry to say, that a great pro-
portion of our mercantile interest in Lon-
don, are advocates for a rupture, and even
in the manufacturing towns, those not im
mediately interested in the trade, call for
War. Sjfe hope, however, the good sense
of both'fBveriime-nts will resist any popular
clamor of that sort, and prefer peace "
The letter from which the above is art extract
is from the respectable house of William
and Thomas Cott |