|
Debates in, ( ,ss.
HOUSE OF R£P'yE?;iKTJriTES.
.Thursday, December 10. .
on the appropriation
Mr.- Elliott's Pprerh_____________________
GUNBOATS.
-,- (Continued.)
- In a'dditi#rt to the information thus dispos.
o repose the
same decree of faith in them which the eye
maker in Constantinople required those who
employed him to have in his power to make
them see.
The great argument in favor of gunboats
was the economy of the system. In each
gur.boat, one office? and 30 or 40 men, must
Jbe employed, which would cost for each gun
boat about 16000 dollars per annum. Allow
but 20 men to a boat, and upon some such
calculation the secretary of the navy must
have gone, and the annual expence of keep-
ing the proposel number of gunboats in
?»,' ice would exceed three millions -with
¦ SO men to each boat it.would exceed four
Bullions. To build the nimbtfr of gunbijjts
contemplated would cost one million,making
altogether upwards of five millions, the ex
pence of the year. What, he inquired, would
have'been the expence of carrying into effect
the proposition which he had th>j honor to
submit at the 'ast session ? The United
States were in possession of frigates & small
er vessels, carrying in ths whole 531 guns.
The secretary of the navy had, in compli
ance with a resolution of the house fi-
nished an estimate of the expence of keep-
ing t.h'ese vessels in s-rvice for one year.
He would not suppose that estimate correct
—but he would suppose it more thaa a mil
lion of dollars short of the necessary sum.
Tlio secretary had estimated the expence at
a million and a half ; Suppose it was put at
two millions and a bait ; for one half the
expence necessary for keeping the gun-
boats in service, the United States would
have the. benefit of double the number of
guns.' This might be economy, but it was
a species of economy which he did not un-
derstand, and against which he seriously
protested.
On this subject the report of the secreta-
ry of the treasury furnished information of
some importance. He there made seme re
marks on the resources of the country in
case of war. (Mr. Elliott read a part of the
report.) The object in that report appeared
to be. to be able in time of war to keep the
establishment equal to the ¦¦¦¦: ce es-
tablishment and to pay the interest on war
loans. All the exprnces of the war wi re to
be borrowed. Upon making a calculation^
it would be found that this system of chance
¦was liable to great objection. Tney were
told that the present n venue would prevba
bly be diminished one half. The expences
of the war cculd not reasonably be estimat
ed at less than twenty nine millions annual
ly supposing the country was defended at
•all vulnerable points, and Canada invaded.
(Mr. E. here observed that he found his
voice failing very fast, which would prevent
him from going so fully into the calculations
on this subject as he had intended. He
would state their general result.) Supposing
the annual expences of the war to be twen-
ty-nine millions. The fiist year that sum
would have to be borrowed, and the inter-
est, amounting to 1,740 000 dollars paid.
T!.e second year a like si.m would have to be
borrowed, and the interest on the loan of
both years paid ; and- so on from year to
3-ear. Supposing the war to continue five
yesis. a debt of i45.000,000 dollars would
be created, on which an interest, during
that period of "0,100,000 dollars must be
paid, k was worthy of remark that the
iaeisst en the war loans would increase, in
prepBrtion to the aoiiiy- of the the possibility of nbappcmrtMHrt, Hfi rt*l j latsd-t* hasten, the return of those which
Upon trie principles ad- entered it ,vyh,b a jiqd neves to be, I may be found within the limtts of your
for moment, a waiter in the anti- I "agency. Accept assurances " "
er of the presidential'palace.
The pre enl a Iministratiolj of the rrovern-
mer.t, however pure the motives, was calcu-
lated to lower the national spirit, and to wea-
ken the national strength—to keep up I he-
country to pay
vaneed by the secretary of the treasury,
these sums would have to be railed during
the war. besides creating a debt of between
one and two hundred Martlions of dollars.
Under such circumstances, would the house
lay out five millions of dollars of the peo-
ple's money on a mere matter of experi-
ment.
But it was said ibis measure was not
only recommended by the executive, but was
also popular. The people did not always
sufficiently investigate ; but where was their
great popularity ? The gendeman from Mas,
sechusets had told them they were p pular
with his constituent • How had he a -
certained that a majority of his constituents
were in favor of them ? People to the east-
ward residing on the seaboard cmld not
be in favor of them. The petitions of the
legislature of New-York and Rhode-Island
shewed evidently that they were not in fa-
vor of them and that they wished some
more efficient plan to be adopted. So far as
information could be acquired, the people
of Massechusetts were also opposed to them.
As for himself.he co>dd not learn that there
&c."
T A LONDON PAPFK OF OCTOISKR 31.
ADMIRALTY COURT — DOCTOR'S COMMONS.
'spirit of party, when the nation ought to be
united for a foreign war. An administrati-
on wi*h this tendency could never have his
support. When he sa.v the miserable, vain
j system of gun-boats substituted for a grand
I scheme of national defence, how could he
. feel confidence in an administration which
1 pursued such a system ? He would hail the
, day which first smiled on him a private ci-
tizen, lice from the toils and cares of public
life, and from political denunciations.—¦
Whether he then supported or opposed the
administration was a matter of but little con-
Sequence, and would depend on the admi-
nistration itself.
An honorable gentleman from N. Carolina) |
yesterday, in speaking of the northern sec-
tion of the union, haa called it " that ko-
narahle part of the union, the north." He
knew not exactly what th» gentleman meant
by this expression ; but he considered the
, . 1 ¦ ! uy mis
were any gun boat men amongst hts constt- , „ , ^^^^^^^^^^_^^^^^
. ». n-u • u. u .1 11 ' people of the north as an honoi aole people;
stuents. There might be there as well as r r e *
elsewhere a few in favor of them, because
they - ere favorites with the executive.
They could give no other reasons for their
partiality.
The appointment of gun boats, if
the syste-n should be ad >pte.l would be a
subject of some doubt to the eastern depart-
ment, there had been assingned a hand-
some quota; and although the members
thence wished to dispence with this mode
of defence it was still forced on them.
This business was all cut and dry, and
though there was no explicit recommenda-
tion of it, it was an executive measure. The
exact number which the legislature must
provide had been previ usly fixed and their
stations designated. He did not understand
Jhis mode of legislation in a republican
government.
All he could find in the president's mes.
sage on the subject of gun boats, was the
following. The gun boats too already
provided have on a like principle been
chiefly assigned to New-York, New-Or-
leans and the Chesapeake. Whether our
force on the water so material in aid of the
defensive works on the land should be aug-
mented in this or any other form is left to
the wisdom of the legislature." This might
be to some an explicit recommendation for
an armament of i oc 300 gu» boats ; but
to him nothing appeared more irresponsible.
If the house should proceed to build 257
gun boats, and frigates and ships of the line,
the responsibility would fall on themselves.
They would he told the executive had never
recommended them. It was true that the
secretary of the navy in answer to a letter
from the chairman of the committee had
said he believed this number of gun boats
would be useful. But were the house merely
on his account to expend so much of the
peoples money ? He could not understand
such a mode of legislation. He could not
submit to (hrow away the peoples money by
millions at a time, merely because a secreta-
ry or president thought it might prove use-
ful.
Upon the whole, this was but a new edi-
tion of the proclamation and gun-boat sys-
tem,, which had already sunk the public to a
low point of degradation and disgrace. We
had no commandover the water & were mak-
ing no efforts to obtain that command.—
The President says Mr.E.issuesa proclam ,-
tion, interdicting the waters of the U. States
to certain British armed vessels. One of
those vessels, in defiance ofthat proclamati-
on, comes into one of our harbours. The
commanding officer at the fort sends the
captain of the vessel notice of the proclama-
tion, and an order to depart. The officer
tells him in his 'eeth that the proclamation
of the President would disgrace oae ..f ihe
petty Barbary powers, or the sanguinary
reign of a Robespierre. What then is the
course of the American officer ? He sends
off an express at the distance of 100 miles
10 enquire of the pres>dent what he was to
d >. In the meantime the interdicted vessel
lies in yi ur harbour in despite ol the autho-
rity of the country. It this was the efficacy
uf the proclamation jnd gun boat system,
the s oner ihe country was rid of it, the
better.
Should they be required, on the eve of a
uar. or as some gentlemen stated, when ac-
tually in war—should they, in times lii-e
the present, be forced, contrary to their
judgment, metlvon account of a strange
whim or passion for gunboats, vote away
money, f> or 8 millions at a time, because
the president, a solitary individual, thought
them useful and the only one tn the nation
perhaps who would thinkthemso. Should
Yesterday the right lion, sir William Scott
proceeded to the adjudication of the follow-
ing- cases :
Governor Cihnan.—This American vessel
laden «ith a cargo of tobacco, cotton,
staves, and other articles, was captured in
the prosecution of her voyage to Amster-
dam. The court, alter the case had been
shortly proceed-d in, observed that this case
was exactly similar to that determined the
other day (the Orion) and that it could not
sit'to put a stop to all neutral commerce, as
it-would have that effect, if it countenanc-
ed such proceedings, and therefore condemn-
ed the captors in casts a,nd damages.
Unity, Hodge, master.—This American
vessel, laden with a cargo of various mer-
chandize, w-s goin_' from Amsterdam ta
Orleans - schr Margaret Tingey, Woostcj,
Trinidad in Cuba.
The schooner Louisiana, WynVoop, from
St. Etemingo for New-York, is totally lost
on Biock-Island.
St. Bartholomews.
Captain Benham, arrived here last even-
in?, in 16 days from St. Bartholomews, in-
form:;, that the French had landed IOO men
, at that place, who, after a manly resistance
from 12 Swedish soldiers, 3 of horn were
killed in the action, took possession of the
forts. After possession bad been obtained,
two privateers came in, when commenced a
scene of riotous depredation. Mr. Israel
Bunger, of the island, was a principal suf-
ferer—they piliaged his dwelling house, &
c mnting house round of every article of va-
lue, even pursued him, with an intention to
take bis life. He however fortunately escap-
ed unhurt, although a number of shot were
fired at him. They expressed a determina-
tion to put a stoo t the St. Domm :o trade
and declared to the governor, that if he did
not interdict the same, they would speedily
Newbnryport, in America, when she was return, fire the town, and plunder" indie-
not more so than those of the south,, hut as
much so as any Gad ever made. He consi.
dered them as a high minded people ; zea
ious for their country's rights, and behind
none in the hour of battle. In the name o'
that people be would venture to protest
against any measures calculated to plunge
them into the horrors of war on mere points
of expediency. If reparation should be made
for the outrage on the Chesapeajce, then ne-
gociate for other disputed points. If repa-
tion could be obtained for that, it ought
not to be coupled with other and alder points
of dispute. The people of the north would
never consent to go to war for mere specu-
lative points. If they should be thus plung-
ed into a war be had no doubt but they
would soon withdraw their confidence from
the administration Whether the people of
the north were considered as the friends or
the enemies of the present administration-
if it would support the national rights, it
would receive their support ; but if " in
the full tide of successful experiment." it
persevered in denouncing men of wi-'dom,
talents and patriotism, merely because they
did not think it always right, it would soon
lose the national support.
Mr. E. said he had been far some time
quite exhausted, and had only pursued the
subject from a sense of duty. He had in-
tended to have gone more fully into it, but
fdimrl himself unable. He once more pro-
tested against the adoption of a system to.
tally inadequate to the end in view, and
much more expensive than a more efficient
system.
Mr. Fitk did not rise for the purpose of
entering into the discussion, but merely to
notice the opinion of his colleague respect
ing the opinion of the people to the east-
ward. So far,as that opinion had been as
certained by him, it was strongly in favor of
gunboats, as well as in favor of the adminis-
tration.
Mr. Dana observed, that from some things
which had been said, he perhaps ought re be
admonished, and relinquish his right of
speaking ; but as he bad not yet become so
humble as tamely to give up a right which
he possessed, he would take the liberty to
make a few observations.
The question he understood to he a bij
from the senate, appropriating a sum of mo
ney for the construction of am additional
number of gunboats It had not been print-
.ed for that house, but as be understood its
intention, it was »o srjve to the president a
certain limited discretionary power to cause
money to be expended. It was not an act by
which the president could be obliged to make
the expenditure,but an authority to make it
which .he might or might not exercise, as lie
judged the public interest required. The
question was not, should 188 gunboats be
at all events built, but should the president
be armed with a discretion, to build if he
was of opinion the public interest required
it. If thnn members were not satisfied that
the number of gunboats already built are
1 ad> quate to that species of service required
I of them, they would be in favor of building
I others.
[Debate to be continued.']
met with and captured by a French cruder,
and after ¦ ards rescued by a British vessel,
for which service • Salvage was claimed.
The court pronounced, under all the cir
cuu.stances of the cass, that the vessel was
exempt from payment of salvage
Fanny.—This vessel, under American
colours, laden with a car,'(> of East India
produce, was captured in the prosecution
of her voyage frmm America to Amsterdam
COMMERCIALLY IMPORTANT.
Newport, Dec. 10.
To the Editor of the boston Centlnel.
Sir,
The inclosed is a copy of a circular letter
from the American minister at Paris to the
theydenounre every individual who would n. t | American consuls in France, and Holland,
subscribe to this, and to every other dogma, ; the authenticity of it may be depended upon
in modern politics. Pie hoped the house, I __Yours.
regardless of ail extraneous information, j Paris, Dec. 10 1807.
would pi ess on in the discharge of its duty. • gJRi
The lime must come « hen all the wisdom j «' The ]mper;al decree of the 21st Nov,
of the heusc would be necessary to save the ]a6, is about ,0 be i;i£,rany executed. Or-
cocntry from degradation—v. hen it must I ders for this purpose have, I am credibly in-
discard party spirit, and pursue the great in-
terests of the nation. It seemed 10 be, a-
mong others, one of the dogmas of the pre-
sent day, that " he who doubleth is damn-
ed"—that he who did net believe in the ab-
solute perfection of the present administrati-
on, was guilty of a damnable heiesy. He
would himself soon ret tie fiom public life,
and never again qui; the rececivi private
tranquility. This determination might be
attributed to disappointment j but it did not
thence proceed. He had entercdintopublic
formed, been sent to the department of ma-
rine and council of prizes. The moment
this fact is known ill England it is to be
presumed it will have the effect of letting
loose the ships of war and cruizers of that
nation on such part of our commerce >¦ ith
this country, Spain, Holland, &c. as may
be found within their reach. Lhider these
circumstances it is at least prudent that our
ships andother vesselsnow in Europe should
return as rapidly as possible to the United
States ; and I accordingly invite you to the
life under circumstances which precluded adoption of such measures as are best caWu
The c 'Uit in this case pronounced the sei- I
zure of the ship in question to be unjustifia-
ble, accordingly restored the same and car-
go, and condemned the captors in costs
and damages.
NEW YOUK, December 18.
Capt. Weymouth, in 36 hours from Nor-
folk, informs, that the British squadron had
gone to sea ; and that the French ship Pa-
triot of 74 guns was siill at anchor in the
Roads.
Arrived brigEliza Brovn, 48 days from
Antwerp 2 pipes gin. demij >bns, and some
brandy and gm out of a smaller Left,
the barque T vc- Brothers Gardner, from N.
York, not permitted to etiter on account of
her having been at an Kn dish port ; and
the brig Dragon,of New Yoik repairing at
Flushing. Oct. 28, capt. Brown, while in
co. ith the brigf Orient. Jenny, fr >m Rot-
terdam for N. York, in the north sea, fell in
with an Open boat deserted, having on
b arc! ab >ui i 'I9 gallon kegs of gin & bran-
dy, which-hey 10. L' The boat was 40 feet
in length, artfl so uniti -, that they
couhl not h'oijt hei ¦-.. — Off Cape Fuii.teie,
was bearded oy a British gun brig, & (rest-
ed poli'ely.
Brig Vancouver, Grandon 36 days from
Greer 'ck.
Brig Calliope, Records, 7 days from
Charleston, c< 11011, rioe old s{oat skin;.—
Spoke Dec. 10 insideshe bar brig t
ra. of R. 1 iUnd, from Africa.
R-i C-lia, Smith. 16" days from St.
Pierres. Martinique, sugar and Molasses.—
; [,iiie for N. York.
Schr. Harriet^ Smith, i8dys from St.
] go de Cuba, sugar, coffee, cotton,
anfl fustic Lef'v ship Rittenhoose, Moffit,
of Philadelphia seal in by a French pn\a
teer on the 21/n, on her passage from Te-
neriffe for Jaaiaici; ship Julian, Tarty, for
. Charleston, in 4 days ; brig Olive, of New-
York d'schargii" ; bri¦> Sally, Gtiffen, of
Philadelphia, arrived the 2-rh in 97 days
from Marsd.es: schr. M.unt Walliston,
C-'ttle. for N Y rk, in 4 days ; Rainbow.
V-r >;..; for lllthnore, in 8 days ; Mind" ell,
Cottle, of Boston, for Philadelphia. Dec.
3. ft"Cape Maize, was bearded by a British
slooii of war and treated po! tf'lv,
Schr. Weym utli. Capt. Wrymouth, 6
days from Richmond. The schr. Dispatch,
Smith, has just arrived from Liverpool, and
was to load for N. York.
Schr. Emily, Benham, 19 days from St.
Bartholomews, and 15 from St. Martini —
sugar.
Schr. Venus, Oliver, 4 days fr m Wil-
mington, cott n, naval stores and flaxseed.
Schr. Caiharine, Snores, from yVashing.
mgton, N. C. with naval stores. On
Wednesday night, close in with cape May
spoke the schr- Nancy, of New Bedloidto
Philadelphia, supposes she got ashore that
night.
Sloop Phebc. Burton, 5 days from Wil-
mington, N. C. naval stores.
Sloop Venus Koosh, 5 days from Nor-
folk, sugar, flour, cotton and flaxseed On
Tuesday, off the capes of Philadelphia
spoke brig Is ibeiia, 10 days fiom Ha ana
for Philadelphia. The day before spoke a
schr. 50 days from 'a -aica for Baltimore.
Sloop Sally, S.h nd -s, of Bristol, 12
days from Havana; molasses, sub'ar. and
hides.
Arrived last »':ght.
The Swedish bri/ Kr 11 Prinsen, Willi
ams, 13 days from St. Ba tlv. loim.-ws, cof-
fee and sugar. Spoke day before ye co- ay,
off Egg Harbor, the S r-dish ship Sophia-,
Magdelena- Johnson, from Cape Francois
for Boston—and British >,chr. Gardner, from'
do. lor do. Dftc: 6. hit. 33, long- 72. spoke
schr. Urica, Ptzig, from H„ytt, for the
first port, being leaky, and main b' 0111
sprung. Lat. 33, spoke the sehr. Van Skep,
Jackson, from do. for 1'alfimere, Left, schr.
Custavus Vasa, Arnold, for Philadelphia ;
Swallow. Murdoch, and Uhna, for Balti-
more ; brig Hoboy, Wilson ; ship Sweden,
and schr.-------, Hallace, for Baltimore'
Below last right, 1 ship, 4 brigs and 2
schooners. Wind southerly.
Cleared, ship Cordelia, Milden, Piiifcri.
Shepherdess, .fcwme, Marseilles; Enter-
prise. Stenman,'Newry ; brio- Washington
Watges, Jamaica; Thetis, Deliver, New-
criminately every inhabitant. In conse-
quence of this thrraf. and at the interces-
sion of the merchants, the trade has been
interdicted.
They to kout of the harbor the Swedish
brig St. Barth [ornev»s, whose cargo was
, valued at 30,000 d liars, and the American
¦ schooner Rand.un, of Baltimore, on suspi-
cion of her being boiijid t > St. Domingo.
I They took fiom n board the Raiulam, a
young man, whom they forced to draw up
a false cert'ficate. impeaching her cargo.
The merchants and inhabitants were in
the greatest dread of th:: French, and an-
xiously a \aited the arrival of a British force
to protect them an their property.
ANOTHER OUTRAGE.
From tin* 'ame soiree, we are informed
that an English armed bripr. ]ust arrived
from G'iern*r*v and bound to St. Domingo,
cooly and without the slightest provocation
fired, in'o the American scli'r Breeze, of
r? Itimore, lying at anchor, and shot one
man. The next day a party of Americans
assembled on the shore ; and '" paved *he
Enrlish handsomely for their unprov
and cruel attack."
PWT.ADttTPHTA, Dec. 19.
Arrived ship Fair American, Fra'ey, St.-
Bar's, sugars ; British brig Friends, Med-
calh Jamaica.
Cleared, ship Liher V, Bryan, Amster-
dam via Charleston ; D'snatch. Singleton,
A. 1 "ppi'ir : Kfiff Ti vely Lass Murd ck,
TV "f T,,rnnce : Mercator. Freeman. Duu-
!:n : Oeor-ve, EveWf. Lisbon • V'rtorv,
Trpf»then P;rt month ; sch'r N;
Greely, Salem; slo'op.Bersy, Chase, Rich-
mond.
i;l"'li R»,rer. B;-sren, from C
France, brirr N'ag^irn, Rtli
T.-oM-T hid and srh'r Nancy, Wal
from B''rraroa are below,
Th« 'Rfaner lerr 1 lie of France
Aotiv M-irris, of and for Philadelphia,
C intnn.
Ship Fanv. Smith, sent into Plymouth is
cVarod—captors appealed.
'•sV.h'r M,rv '^nn, Morse, from Lartlfrai
to Philadelphia, is sent into Tortola for ad-
uehoahnn.
Rritish sr'.'r John, Jarre's, from Cape
Francois to Gonaivps js taken by a British
frigate and sent to Jamaica.
From the Jamnjrn Courpnt, of the 10th ult.
receded of th's qfJire.
fDnp'tfOn. (fim.) N'c-v. ro. — The sclvr .
Hannah, Cannon, from Washin»ton, (N.
C ) to Dominica, with lumber and fish, put
into Port Royal on Sunday evr-nino;. havjng
so'uno- a leak, in lat. 32. On Thursday
la^t off T-'Cmel, she was boarded by a French
privac.5,1805T. -
THE.public are iertb\ informed, that the
Winl r Establishment of the Mail nnon the
main 1 »e. will commence at this office on
Tuesdav the ^tb inst.
TERN Mali-,
Will close every day at a q arter p-;
Clock, a. M v. ill arrive every day at half past 9
o'clock a. m.
SOUTHEUNMAIX,
Will close at a quarter pas* 7 o'clock, a M
will arrive at 9 o'clock, a. m.
CHAKLKS BUHKAI.I,.
P. 9. The Carlisle Mail will hereafter arrive
every Tuesday, at 10 o'clock, a. m and will be
closed ervery Wednesday at 12 9'cleck rioon
Dec. 5.
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